Hung-Fei Wu [HW]: You mentioned your previous curatorial project ‘Dear Amazon’ triggered your interest in ecological topics, how significant is your experience of this project in terms of shaping your curatorial practice? and before this, what’s your research or curatorial practice focus?
Juhyun Cho [JC]: ‘Dear Amazon’ is a project, which I have curated at Ilmin Museum of Art in Seoul, in collaboration with Videobrasil in Sao Paulo since 2018, with four exhibitions held in various forms over three years in different locations. This exhibition is considered the first in Korea to introduce the ‘Anthropocene’ to the public, and has received great attention not only from the art world but also from various social science fields. Through this project, I became interested in the thoughts of South American indigenous peoples and the Anthropology by the Third World. The goal was to build a network of solidarity and cooperation among local curators and artists in non-Western countries, and to localize the Anthropocene discourse that had been developed mainly in the West. Therefore, building a platform to imagine new regional-centered historical narratives became the direction of my curatorial practice.
Since I started working as a curator in 2003, my interest in media, public nature, and experimental narrative art has never deviated significantly. In 2015, I wrote my doctoral thesis on the topic of research on participatory art discourse and aspects in the post-media era, and I have focuesed on curatorial projects that explored new art forms in the fields of audience participation, community, and archive art through experiments with various media such as theater, performance, post-drama, and games.
[HW]: I am intrigued by the naming of ‘Drifting Curriculum’, the idea of ‘Drifting’ has been poetically brought out in the project ‘Mobile Scenarios for the Metamorphic Beings’. I wonder if you see it as a possible way of resisting colonialism, and if so, how? I feel the undercurrent energy of imagination and speculation in many of DC projects.
[JC]: ‘Drift’ is a concept that greatly inspires many art praticioners. For me, ‘drifting’ was a sensory state I experienced intensely while working at an art museum during the pandemic. A sense of fear and helplessness as if the works in the beautifully presented exhibition halls would be suffocated in a vacuum as museums were unable to open their doors after holding exhibitions. The sight of artists who could not endure such conditions gathered in the empty space of a virtual reality like the Metaverse, wearing masks called avatars and making noises, overlapped with the situation of drifters stranded in the middle of the sea with no coordinates anywhere on the map. Some people were excited, praising the potential of the metaverse, like neo-imperialists pioneering new territory. Amid various perspectives on the post-pandemic world, the idea that the place of our lives is none other than a ‘drifting space’ is a place where the humans living there and the surrounding environment—including works of art—all change from time to time in relationships with other beings. It made me feel like I was in a constant state of ‘metamorphosis’, changing my position.
And as I work as the curatorial director of ARKO for the Korea-Netherlands exchange and cooperation program in 2021, I paid attention to the incident in the diplomatic history of the two countries where ‘drift’ is being recorded as an unexpected momentum in the relationship between the two countries. It is an anecdote that is famous in Korea but not widely known in world history. There was an incident in which Hendrick Hamel, an explorer belonging to the Dutch East India Company during the Age of Exploration, accidentally became stranded on the coast of Jeju Island in 1653 while heading to Nagasaki, Japan. The Dutch East India Company employees who settled in Korea as a result of the drifting incident were detained here for 14 years, and many of them died or some escaped. At a time when the world map was created following the navigation routes of European imperialists, a completely different relationship between Europe and Asia was unfolding through the niche in the history of colonialism.
In DC, ‘drifting’ connects numerous futures with disasters that occur in the space of our lives where climate change, fear of infection, and threats to human existence have become commonplace. It also operates as a motif in artistic practice to reproduce a contemporary speculative landscape that continuously changes and reorganizes the positions of viruses, immigrants, refugees, Asians, others, and non-human entities as boundaries.
[HW]: As for ‘Curriculum’, the construction of knowledge itself could be colonial, I wonder how would you describe the work of DC, is it aiming to build/create knowledge, or to collect knowledge (ie, to quote or to cite the marginalized). And, how do you see the idea of ‘unlearning’?
[JH]: I used the concept of ‘curriculum’ as a metaphor for modern institutions such as schools and museums. ‘Drifting’ modifies ‘Curriculum’ and is intended to mean artistic practices that intervene in the modern system. The Latin etymology of curriculum is ‘Currere (to run)’, and the curriculum used in traditional education is a noun meaning ‘a race track that race horses must run along’, and a curriculum that focuses on ‘results’ has come to be emphasized. Therefore, in traditional pedagogy, the curriculum itself becomes the goal, and classes, students, and teachers all become means to achieve it. In modern pedagogy, as the paradigm changes to a process-oriented curriculum rather than results, the student returns to the original origin of the Latin word ‘Currere’ and interprets it as a verb meaning ‘the horse runs’, making the student the center of the curriculum. The students came to recognize what they learned as a process of meaning-making along with their lives. ‘Drifting Curriculum’ rejects both traditional and modern curricula and seeks to create a race with completely different rules applied on a new racetrack where the racetrack itself where the horses used to run has completely disappeared. We want the process of creating a new racetrack to move beyond the existing modern system of ‘schools’ or ‘museums’ and unfold on another planetary level.
If ‘unlearning’ means ‘discarding learning’ as an alternative to ‘acquiring learning’, then it is the process of creating a new race track of ‘Drifting Curriculum’. In other words, the difference from ‘Unlearning’ is that ‘Drifting Curriculum’ focuses on the energy that is newly built after everything is wrecked and destroyed. I still teach within traditional academies and work in partnership with them. To me, there is not much of a difference between working within a traditional academy or working at an alternative institution with the motto of ‘out-of-school education’. This is because I am not interested in establishing any system, but only interested in constantly building new racing tracks. I am currently teaching at universities in Seoul, and my class is a process of specifically imagining and building a new system through ‘Drifting Curriculum’ with students. Over the course of a semester, students will slowly go through the process of breaking away from the existing racing route and create a new racing route on their own and with colleagues. In the process, the experiences and knowledge of oppressed communities are collected, and the collected knowledge information is directed to a community of care that is connected in various ways through “geological-human entanglement.”
[HW]: In terms of building a sustainable framework for DC, how is its structure being decided, and how are the projects evolved and realized (now there are 6 projects or more)?
[JC]: Building a sustainable framework is a truly challenging task. The fact that DC’s project was launched within the framework of the National Arts Council is a great advantage, but it also acts as a limitation. When forming a board members, we were able to pay them an honorarium for their contributions, and we researched practices that fit the intention of our project and contacted interested researchers, artists, scholars, practitioners, and educators. In addition, each board member creates his or her own detailed agenda and expands it as more invited members are formed. So, each agenda was developed and carried out as various types of projects, but due to the organic and independent nature of each agenda, not all were able to progress at the same speed or produce similar amounts of results. Since these are research-based programs, a lot of creative energy is needed in the process of converting research into artistic practice. In that regard, the participation of the art world was very important, and the goal was to create a physical and sensory experience based on affect by converting concrete events or scientific data into abstract images or speculative narratives. Of course, such a process is not simple and requires a large budget or organizational capacity, so in many cases it is impossible to realize without cooperation with organizations such as the Gwangju Biennale, which made the public hearings with Korean environmental activists groups on the ‘Court for Intergenerational Climate Crime’ possible. However, I would like to focus on the aspect that we can make our imaginations more concrete through DC. In most cases, curators and artists often have to let go of inspiration that comes to them moment by moment until the conditions are fully met. I think that if we grasp those possibilities and materialize them little by little, they can be realized in some form or another.
[HW]: The nature of DC is very much built on cross-cultural collaboration, be it with Brazil, Netherland and Canada, how do you reflect on the resources, impact, and limitation, challenges, when working with international partners?
[JC]: That’s a good question. Because DC is inherently a curatorial project, it has no choice but to rely primarily on government cultural funds and diplomatic cooperation funds to operate. Naturally, we are greatly influenced by the direction in which government’s cultural policy is designed. We are seeking the sustainability by applying for available funds from each division of the Arts Council, such as cultural exchange programs commemorating the establishment of diplomatic relations between governments, international exchange exhibitions, travel, research, and publication support. This e-book we are publishing this time is also an expansion of the research we did in Arko’s Korea-Netherlands exchange and cooperation program project for 2021-2022. If we work in accordance with the conditions of cultural policies or diplomatic events, we can find new cooperation partners and create other possibilities and expand, but there are realistic limits to carrying out work under a long-term plan. Right now, we can’t predict how and on what scale next year's plans will be implemented. There is also an aspect of creating creative ideas using this uncertainty as a driving force. I become more actively involved in collaborations with other fields or disciplines other than the art world. From our experience so far, the process of resolving the limitations of the fund with our cooperation partners was very important. When there are restrictions on domestic funding and conditions, it can sometimes become a source of conflict, but with partner organizations taking active steps, we have been able to adjust the overall pie.
I’m thinking more and more about making the project a decentralized network. The model of the Climate Museum UK, which was interviewed in ‘Reimagining Museums for Climate Action’, was impressive. (Climate Museum UK does not use the term ‘museum’ as a traditional concept to refer to an actual institution or physical space, but exists as a grassroots climate action network.) These are ‘mycorrhizae’, where trees in the forest form symbiotic relationships through root mycelium. CMUK said they were inspired by those network. Just as plants naturally practice mutual aid by distributing nutrients intensively to plants in need of help due to environmental difficulties through mycorrhizal networks, members work in different locations and form partnerships in their respective locations to help partners in danger. I think it is important to build a structure that can resist the effects of a crisis by building nodes. This is not simply about funding or operational cooperation, but is also related to social justice aspects. It’s about growing the network so we can support emerging or marginalized practitioners and partners, and more importantly, equipping ourselves with the insight and structure to anticipate risks and resist the impact of the global crisis. I think DC will have to move towards this model as more people join.
[HW]: As for the spirit of learning from disaster that is embodied in Disaster Haggyo, how do you define your role as an art practitioner, in such a desperate world full of crisis and conflicts? What’s your passion and belief that keeps you going, and what’s the breakthrough you are looking forward to seeing?
[JC]: As an art practitioner, I want to play a role in creating creative forms that can engage people to shape the world we live in, big and small. In particular, with the belief that art can play a more important role than any other field in a desperate world full of crisis and conflict, I strive to create curatorialship that enables solidarity and collaboration that transcends national, intergenerational, and interdisciplinary boundaries. I do not intend to become a social activist or legislative administrator in order to realize social justice. However, it’s not like I have any goals or goals to achieve as a curator. There is just an agenda for each project, and when I have a goal to execute that agenda, I gain energy for life as a curator. And although it takes a long time to think and research to unfold it, I don’t think there is any fear of crossing boundaries between countries, generations, and disciplines. As a member of the art world, I want to continue to suggest directions in which society and the community can be just and devoted to future generations.